WHEN IT'S OVER, IT'S OVER. SO, WHY THE HOOVER?

Not for the narcissist. For the narc, it's NEVER over, which is why they hoover you again and again (hoovering = named after the vacuum, meaning, to try to suck you back into their life). A lot of victims want to know WHY the narcissist does this. I mean, the N SAYS that they miss you, that they're sorry, and all that, maybe even that they still love you. Chances are, you let the narc back into your life at least once, and maybe more times. I did. My now wife did, three times near the end of their marriage. Yet, it turns out that the narcissist hasn't changed at all, and given that they continue to abuse and cheat, the reason for the hoover can't sensibly be LOVE. So, why do they do it?

First, as most of you know, the main goal of the narcissist is supply, and you're a good source of supply. Hey, if the N can crap all over you and you still take them back, to them, HEY, THEY GOT IT...AND THEY GOT YOU. What the narc hates is when they mean nothing to you and you are indifferent to them. So, they hoover.

Second, narcissists are big ego maniacs and control freaks, so getting you back into their lives after they dumped you is a huge ego boost, and now they have control over you again, and can use you for sex and supply, money, or anything they wish. To the narc, although they will end up crushing your dreams, they are thinking, “How cool is this?”

Third, narcs love to abuse and manipulate, and if they can hoover you, they can twist your head in knots, and maybe even triangulate you with the new supply or other women. You are so incredibly encouraged, happy, and hopeful at this point, the narcissist is in sheer glee at the thought of tearing you to shreds.

Fourth, it makes anything you've said about the narcissist seem like a lie. In fact, when asked by your friends why you went back, you will defend the narcissist, destroying your credibility and allowing the narc to end up calling you crazy and unstable, meaning, they can play the victim to others.

You are a threat to the narcissist's image, and hoovering you neutralizes that threat.

Then, there is the blackmail factor. There always has to be in the back of the victim's mind that if they refuse the hoover and turn their back completely on the narcissist, the N will destroy the victim's reputation with secrets the N knows now, and with total lies, and by twisting the truth, so as to isolate the victim and deny them any form of support.

What other people don't understand is that a break up with a narcissist is NOT ANYTHING like a break up with someone else. That's hard enough, but this is like being at the center of a hurricane and the destruction is total. Breakups are an ending and there soon is another beginning, but recovery from a narcissistic relationship is extremely difficult and takes a long time.

Well meaning friends who want you to just get on with it are a problem in themselves. You've been through sheer hell and now, you have to deal with friends telling you NOT to go back with the N, and others telling you what a catch the N is. The drama is endless, and then, BINGO, here comes a hoover.

That's why it's VERY important to learn all about setting boundaries, one of which is “NO CONTACT” of any kind with the narcissist, and no narc dipping (checking the N's Facebook page, reading emails, reading texts, looking at pictures, etc). This site has good articles on setting boundaries and going no contact.

If you have children with the narcissist, you might read the article on having MINIMAL contact with the narcissist.

Without good boundaries and NO OR MINIMAL CONTACT, you will let the narcissist continue to manipulate, use, and abuse you. Recovery begins with NO CONTACT, and then, give yourself time, and lots of it. You will recover and have a good life. Many of us have. So will you.

RELIGIOUS NARCISSISTS: EVIL IN DISGUISE

If you have had the unfortunate experience of being in a relationship with a narcissist with religious pretensions, you know how difficult and confusing it can be. The narc spouts scripture and postures as “holy”, and they use religion to create a veneer of “godliness”.

Now, I've read various articles on the topic that seem to miss the point, which is, that a religious narcissist will just drive you crazy with their constantly letting you know how much better they are than you, or anyone else, for that matter. There is no situation for which they won't butt in with some scripture quote, and no conversation that won't soon turn into a sermon, just to let you know that while you have mundane, everyday concerns like whether you need to buy milk, their mind is on “the things of God”.

This only serves to prove that there is NOTHING that the narcissist can't screw up and make a mess of.

Even the fairly normal process of raising kids becomes so darn tedious when you have to listen to the religious BS, when you're really talking about the homecoming game and dance.

Why does the narcissist act so religious when they are in fact immoral, liars, and abusive? Well, what better a facade than that? They certainly fool a lot of people, as we find out during a divorce, when the narcissist has been having an affair and manages to convince those in their congregation that YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, and that you are impeding their ability to “serve God”.

I was personally stunned by the reaction of the congregation to my NarcX...they believed EVERYTHING she had to say, including that I was the abusive one, and that I was dangerous and mentally unstable, despite the fact that NOTHING I had ever done would make anyone believe that....and given that my NarcX was the abusive one, was abusing alcohol and drugs, was cheating, lying, and not coming home until very late, and then, drinking or drunk. I had to leave the congregation and go elsewhere.

My religious preference is that of a main stream Christian, and to me, if being a Christian doesn't mean actually doing as we are taught in the Bible, then it means nothing. And, my NarcX was a great one for knowing the words, quoting the bible, and acting like she was very conservative in her religious and moral behavior, but doing the VERY OPPOSITE. You know, the whole love thy neighbor thing? She wasn't interested. The sick, the poor, the down trodden, the hurting....not interested. What was she interested in? She was interesting in how people saw her...she wanted to be thought to be a good person and a devout Christian while being the very opposite.

It doesn't matter the religion, however. My NarcX converted to Reform Judaism, and I supported that, hoping she'd actually follow the teachings and change her life....I was very naive. In her life, she has also been a Baptist, a Methodist, a Lutheran, an Episcopalian, and a Catholic, at one time or another, and she always managed to adopt the OUTWARD FORMS of her current religious interest as an act without actually making any inner changes.

I could never understand how she could go to services, read the Bible, spout the verses, and yet, lie, cheat, and be abusive. The most distressing thing was how she brow beat our children using religion. As usually happens, our children became openly hostile to all religion as a result. My son, now that he lives with my now wife and I is starting to explore spirituality again. Yet, here we have a Bible verse that says if you lead a little one astray, it would be better for you if you had a rock tied around your neck and were thrown into the ocean. But, none of that had any effect on the narcissist.

And, by the way, the narcissist NEVER FELT GUILT for lying or cheating, or anything else, for that matter, and now I know that narcissists never do. Keep in mind that my NarcX hammered me legally for over 9 years, and filled the court will the most horrid and absurd lies, intentionally suing me again and again with the express purpose of destroying me and my finances, and trying to make sure my son had no father, while protecting a monstrous abuser in her own home.

Anyway, that's my experience with a religious narcissist. I bet you've got some stories you can add to these, and we'd be glad to read them, so post them below. I also know of others who have had similar experiences. One day, my wife and I looked over, across the church, and saw the ex husband of a friend, who had taken most of the assets in the marriage and hid them, and kept his ex wife, our friend, in court for 7 long years, at huge expense, rather than equitably share what they had accumulated during their marriage.

Why he was there? I couldn't imagine. Who did he think he was fooling? God? If so, that was very foolish, indeed.

Story of a Scapegoat

Reprinted with permission of a reader...

The Scapegoat

I have 4 sons. P, the eldest and his, slightly younger, brother C, do not belong to the abuser. They were, unfortunate, casualties of my self delusions and the abusers wrath.

P was not really deluded. On the day I married the abuser he cried the entire time. He is the logic and the strength the two have shared since they were toddlers. They are only 15 months apart in age and were about 8 and 10 when the abuser came into our lives.

By far the most abused person in this situation has been C. He was not merely abused by the N but by a Mother who lacked the strength to have belief in her own son and the power to protect him.

I NEVER lacked love for any of my children. My love was just as steadfast as it could be. Sometimes this is just NOT ENOUGH.

C was always a sort of wild child. As a young child I can still remember his jubilance, his ENERGY and his radiance. He was a beautiful baby with straight, jet black hair that looked like it had been cut, in advance, for the day of his birth. He was my little "Eskimo baby". That is exactly what he looked like. His health was pretty good while very young. He did have a period, when he began to walk, during which one leg would suddenly just "buckle" and he would fall. 

My "hard-hearted" and "uncaring" first husband (labels given by you know who) seeing this, prayed to God that it was nothing serious. He made a bargain with God you see. We were both smokers...and he told God that if he would take away this affliction, he would quit smoking and never smoke again. He was willing to pay his part, in advance, and stopped smoking. After a few months, C's leg stopped buckling and he ran around full of life and love...and a bit of frustration and fury. His Father has NEVER smoked again. He openly stated that he had made a promise to God and he would keep it.

Things went along OK for C. He was tested due to his high intelligence and found to be gifted but was not interested in putting forth the effort to go into an "advanced class" His reasoning? "Why would I want to work that hard to get an A when I can get a B without even trying?!?"

I am not a pushy Mother and had no need to insist that my children put on a show for my gratification. I did not insist.

He skated through elementary school, making A's and B's and, indeed, required no effort to do so. His evenings were full of drawing and sketching and making up stories. That was, and is, his love.

At the age of about 8, he was diagnosed with juvenile diabetes. I look back in amazement now and see that he NEVER ONCE...balked or cried...never refused his finger sticks or his insulin shots. He accepted that those things were necessary simply because that was life and we told him they were necessary. As a nurse, this did not strike me as odd at the time because I had a very hard attitude then. 100% logic and force. Why should he balk?!? What good would it do. There was NO OPTION and it was just what it was.

The day he was diagnosed, while I was driving him home, I was crying. I tried to hold back the tears because I did not want to scare him. As an adult he told me that he remembers that day and he was comforted by my tears. He said he felt very special in that I was crying FOR HIM...that I cared so much.

So his life of counting carbohydrates, finger sticks and insulin shots up to 4 times a day was started. He just accepted it without question or complaint. His diabetes was well controlled for the first years. During that time, the N entered the picture.

P, in his logic and reality, KNEW that attempts to make the N "love" him were useless. He tolerated the N and, for the most part, did what he was told...although NEVER quickly enough...never WELL enough. He was NEVER "acceptable".

P was given the name of "Half-Way Joe" and other such derogatory terms and the N fought with them...

not as an adult, but as a peer, bully, who had the POWER to abuse. There was no depth to which he would not sink in order to fight for my attention and it became the daily fact that I had THREE children who fought each other...but one was in a mans BODY and held sway over the entire household.

My two older sons have ALWAYS been VERY CLOSE. They were not twins, but they might as well have been. They spent every moment together, guarding each other, propping each other up...rarely fighting among themselves. It had been this way since they were toddlers and this intensified once they were under the "control" of the N. This became protective behavior and became crucial to their lives for a long while.

Occasionally, P would long to break away and shed the responsibility of his little brother...but his heart would not allow him to do so. He became C's protector and guard...his truth teller. C held tight to his big brother who was acting in the role of Father. 

These first years saw my children constantly being berated by both the N and his N Mother. They were tortured on a daily basis and told they were useless and worthless in every word, every action. I was kept quiet with the story that I was "over-protective" and that my desire to protect my children was "harming them". Over this period of time, the N began telling everyone, including me, that C was a compulsive liar. He would set things up to prompt C to lie to avoid being in trouble...and then point out the lie. He was successful in getting his friends, his family, parts of my family and even ME to begin doubting every word that C said. Since P was so blunt and forthright...and cared so little about the opinions of the narc...he would NOT lie so he could not be portrayed as a liar. C, on the other hand, wanted DESPERATELY to be loved and cherished by the N...so he tried against all reality to prove his worth and gain his love. That was very hard to see as I knew he would never gain ANYTHING but disdain and hatred.

On the occasions when I would stand up for them, their situation always got WORSE because they were then blamed for the issues in our marriage and for MY unhappiness. His mistreatment of them would escalate and his constant statements to me of what a useless Mother I was and how they were simply malignant children without hope would increase. I truly began to turn my head the other way and buy into SOME of what was being brainwashed into me. I still stood up when I needed to, but not often enough. The only boundary that I held steadfastly to was that he was NEVER to touch them in any way.

At about age 14, C began having odd symptoms. He would be difficult to awaken in the morning and did not want to go to school. He would throw up nearly every morning and be so wiped out that he began to miss school and, indeed, was placed in home bound school for part of a year. I took him to specialist after specialist and he was diagnosed, finally, with a vague thing called "Cyclic Vomiting Syndrome" which is a diagnosis given when someone throws up repeatedly and no cause can be found. He was placed on medication which did nothing to help. He began failing at school. His grades, once A's and B's were now failing or near failing in every subject.

After about a year of this, he was sitting at the breakfast table one day and fell out of the chair and onto the floor in a grand mal seizure. This led us to a neurologist who was finally able to tell us what had been happening. It turns out that C had been having, nearly NIGHTLY, grand mal seizures which were unwitnessed as he was alone in his room. In the morning, the symptoms he displayed were the after effects of his seizures...the lethargy, the headaches  the throwing up...all due to the seizures he was having on a near nightly basis.

Having this many seizures had also resulted in some minor brain damage which caused his change in personality and resulted in some learning disabilities. His IQ was not affected very greatly...but it caused him to have difficulty expressing himself verbally without frequent pauses and lost trains of thought. It also caused him to have difficulty with perceiving what he was reading and following directions. 

He was also having a great deal of trouble socially as he was embarrassed by his diagnoses of diabetes and seizure disorder. He had multiple, embarrassing and very public seizures during school hours. He hid these diagnoses from his peers and teachers which often resulted in his frequent low blood sugars being judged to be "behavioral problems" and he became known as a "trouble maker" at times.

His diabetes was VERY unstable and all his attempts (and all my attempts, even as a medical professional) were not successful in controlling it. His blood sugar would frequently bounce from 25 to >500 on a daily basis. The low sugars triggered the seizures and so he routinely continued to have seizures, not daily, but often once a week or more.

He became more withdrawn and isolated, with only his brother, and my Mother who were really there for him. I loved him dearly but I was a mess by that time and knew that all I tried to do made his situation at home even worse.

The N, far from feeling ANY sympathy for C, then began repeatedly telling stories of how he looked "retarded" after a seizure and that the EMS guys actually asked once, when trying to get a history after a seizure, if he was "retarded"? This story was REPEATED AND TOLD TO EVERYONE...over and over, in the presence of my son. Then the story changed to "He was retarded due to his seizures". 

My son, fearing that this might be true, became more and more isolated and eventually turned to alcohol and drugs for relief. This added more fuel to the N's stories adding the dimensions of Alcoholic, drug addict and juvenile delinquent to the stories that he told others to garner their support and to elicit their praises and sympathy for "all he had stood by me through". Before long he had made C the scapegoat of not just himself but of many who knew him. 

How awful this must have been for my poor son. 

I was impotent to help him.

I could not even see, at that time, what was happening.

C was a small child and frail in appearance. A doctor once told him that he would never be a tall man and that he would likely remain less than 5-9 as an adult. This was all he needed to hear! He did remain small throughout about age 15.

During this time, an incident occurred. C contacted me at work, during a particularly bad fight with the N when he felt he might be in danger of being physically assaulted.

I reminded him of the boundary that he was never to be touched and that this boundary was well known and, therefore, he was NOT in danger. This is when he informed me that this boundary had ALREADY been broken in the months prior.

I was livid...but must admit...I wanted to get the N's take on this prior to believing my own son. 

C stated that he had been forced up against the wall and grabbed around the throat and lifted off the floor. During this time he was taunted and dared by the N to touch him..."Go Ahead!"" I would LOVE to call the cops and have you taken out of here in hand cuffs". "Who do YOU think everyone is going to believe?!?" "HIT ME!"

This had supposedly occurred more than a month prior and was not mentioned to me. 

When I got home and confronted the N with this information he completely DENIED that it ever happened.

He stated "You KNOW what a LIAR he is! How dare you question me and believe that crap!"

This is when P entered the room. He stated that C was NOT lying and that he had WITNESSED this event. The two boys had decided NOT TO TELL ME ABOUT IT because they feared there might be retribution from the N and so it would not "upset me".

Once called out by someone who could NOT be accused of being a compulsive liar, the N switched tactics and stated

"He pushed me too far and I simply lost control. It was his fault!"

I was angry and restated the boundary but I did nothing else. I was truly quite incapable of acting by that time. I was a lost soul and I did not really know what to do. I DID begin listening more carefully to what C was telling me because, deep inside I knew, if P had NOT witnessed this incident...it is highly likely that I would not have believed him...and this scared me.

Over the next few years, the Doctor was proven wrong as C grew quickly to the height of a little over 6 feet. The N was 5-9 and C quickly towered over him. C was thin but he was very muscular while the N was, by this time, a flabby, middle aged man...with a KNOWN fear of other men. 

Throughout the years of my son's childhoods, the N let me know that his expectation was that my children WOULD be out of the house by the time they turned 18. He would not allow them to stay with us and become “drains on society”. They needed to work and get out. He gave them speech after speech about the fact that adults do what they have to do...take whatever job they could get, whether they liked it or not!

I tried to explain to the N that I could NOT put my children out on the street...to which he replied they could live in their car if they wanted to. I tried to reason with him that C, with his conditions could likely die without proper care and you know what the response to this was?....

The N stated that was not HIS PROBLEM!

Looking back and thinking about it...this was a child that the N RAISED from the age of about 8 years old. That did not result in the N feeling any tenderness or compassion for him....let alone love of any kind. To the N, he was the enemy...pure and simple...and he ALWAYS WAS. 

All else was a lie!

So began the stalemate. I stood sentinel guard between the two factions in my home. Trying desperately to avoid any conflict between the two sides and trying to quell the conflicts that arose CONSTANTLY. I was dreadfully afraid that the N would finally throw them out and I knew that this WOULD be the end of our marriage. I had the twins by that time and I was trying to keep whatever peace I could.

Eventually my sons left, moved into an apartment and lived together for many years. P became the responsible party who was called when C would try to work and end up having a seizure. P lost a couple of jobs due to this need to respond immediately to his brother’s needs.

Some years passed and P decided to enter the military, which meant that C would need to stay with us, at least temporarily. He is disabled and cannot work. He made an honest attempt for several years but would have seizures and be let go for a different reason that was legally acceptable. His blood sugar plummets and he begins to act like he is drunk...which then leads to a seizure if he is not given sugar immediately. That kind of thing is simply not something employers are willing to deal with. He participated in Vocational Rehab for years and the counselor there finally stated that he was simply "disabled" and would not be able to work. We applied for disability for him and after much fighting it was approved initially. This further damaged his self-esteem.

C was with me for about 2 years prior to my being discarded and was given, by the N. as one of the PRIMARY reasons he was leaving. This reason changed frequently according to the audience.

During this period prior to discard, the N began to complain to me that C was making "threatening gestures" toward him and I laughed at him. By this time I held no illusions that he deserved anything more. He was a BULLY, plain and simple. He mouthed and bullied his way through life. In reality he is a coward and when his blustering and threats are not effective he slinks away, making every effort to cause as much passive-aggressive harm as he can. I told him outright that no one deserved it more. He took EVERY opportunity to tower over and terrorize my son as a child and NOW he was BIGGER than the N. I refused to say a word about it as long as he did not actually touch the N. 

Later I found out that this was also a lie. I was relating this story to someone else in the presence of my son, who had NO REASON TO LIE about it at all, and he stated that this had never happened. It was simply a figment of the N's imagination...or, more likely, an attempt to make me ally myself with him...and against my own son. When this did not work...I imagine he was quite shocked!

By this time C was an emotionally damaged, psychologically brainwashed and terrorized, man of 25...with no self-esteem, no confidence, extremely angry and given to violent emotional outbursts...due to his extreme sensitivity at being corrected, questioned or criticized. PTSD will do that to you! He never displayed physical aggression of any kind.

When the N did discard me he continued to come and go at any time he wanted, sneaking in and appearing without warning, getting dressed for dates in my house, living OFF of ME because he REFUSED to pay any part of the bills. He was truly being a pig. 

This total discard, this change of persona and the accompanying lack of any emotion, my powerlessness and his psychotic behavior was causing me to be an emotional wreck. 

He ENJOYED every minute of this and always had a smirk on his face. This lasted for 3 months before we were able to get him out of the house...although he had moved all his belongings into the home of his mistress. He merely maintained a presence in my home to keep me guarded and fearful and miserable. It is nearly impossible to describe the feeling of being held prisoner in your own home, being forced to support someone whose only purpose in life was to cause you pain and fear. During this time, it was as though we were all living in a nightmare. On many nights, my three sons slept in the same room with me...using themselves as guardians against the unknown actions of a man who had no limit to his evil behavior.

Twice, in the presence of others the N came into the house with a loaded gun in his car and started making statements about feeling threatened by C while recording the events on a cell phone. It became a true fear that he was attempting to set up a self-defense scenario, just as he had threatened when C was 14. Only this time we were talking use of a loaded firearm. Our home became a war zone and both C and I were literally on guard at all times because we TRULY did not KNOW what this crazed man was capable of. Others thought we were being overly dramatic and paranoid. No one truly believed he would hurt us...no one but us at least...at first... We became hypervigilant and perhaps bordered on paranoia...but as you are all aware...these "people" are truly unpredictable ...deluded by the thought that they are invincible, smarter than everyone else and given to impulsive actions that might be controlled by a fear of consequences in a sane person.

These delusions of the ability to get away with anything and the lack of the fear of consequences...makes them VERY DANGEROUS individuals...loose cannons who can do physical damage to others during fits of, what they consider to be, justifiable rage. 

I TRULY BELIEVE that he would feel NO COMPUNCTION in murdering my son (and perhaps me as well) because he sees himself as being "abused" for many years by my son's refusal to completely, unconditionally and immediately comply with his demands. It never came to that, of course....for here we are. Still, I have no doubt that any news of the death of either me or my sons would be met with no less than smug satisfaction from him and the thought that God had given me what he believes I richly deserve. It is very difficult to deal with the level of the hatred he spewed at us with his mouth and his eyes and his actions...and not begin to feel hatred in return. Then to have that very hatred, a hatred you have never experienced for another living soul, bred in you by the evil actions of someone who stated they "loved you" mere weeks before...turned around to make YOU look vindictive and crazy!

The N has spent a GREAT deal of time and energy convincing people that C is a violent, abusive, emotionally unstable, mentally defective, drug addict. It is quite obvious that he did NOT dedicate this time and energy without having SOME PLAN for a way in which this could EVENTUALLY be utilized to his benefit!

About 8 months after the N discarded me, and about 6 months after he physically left our home, it all became too much for C. He tried to commit suicide twice because he "Was nothing, means nothing and will always be alone. No one will ever want me." These attempts were not threatened and no mention was made of plans. He simply set about ending his life without fanfare. He nearly succeeded and ended up in the ICU after, twice, taking overdoses of over the counter medications. He nearly required dialysis to save his life.

After these attempts he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I do not believe he is bipolar. I think he has lived his life as the scapegoat of a malignant narcissist, sociopath with a Mother who was powerless to help him and who, effectively, abandoned him to the abuse he endured on a daily basis...and his reaction, his PTSD...his depression....could not be any more normal given what he has been through.

and STILL...this young man retains the ability to feel pity for his abuser. No. This is not something that that damaged, evil, selfish little man will EVER understand. Sometimes it is hard for me to comprehend.

So...where is the Scapegoat now?

He has grown into a handsome man who resembles...almost amazingly so...Will Smith. He hates it when people say that and he denies seeing any resemblance....REALLY?!? 

How that mirror does lie to us!

He is with me and my other children. We live together in peace and cooperation.

He is a wonderful artist, a story writer, a gourmet cook and is coming to understand that he is an empath, hurt often by other people’s emotions. 

It is amazing to me that this handsome, giving young man still looks in the mirror and sees an ugly, useless slug that no woman will ever want....but he does.

That damage will not be repaired overnight.

He is not perfect, any more than I am, and we have our little disagreements from time to time... but he is also emerging from this with an understanding of how living with a DAMAGED individual can truly be detrimental to your being.

He is also TERRIFIED that if he should get into a relationship....it might be with one of these people...and so he is alone.

He would not need to be alone as he has much to offer...he just does not know this...I cannot tell him, although I try. This is something he will need to come to believe in his heart and in his soul. Perhaps it is the smartest thing he can do to be willing to wait.

We have spent many hours discussing what we have experienced...and we share a unique insight into what we have lived. He is the ONLY ONE who saw behind the MASK of the N nearly immediately...and was the one who was "not believed" for the past 17 years.

He, ALONE, knows why I gave up even trying to change the situation....and so, he has forgiven me. I have no doubt that some hurt from this will be with him for the rest of his life...I can understand that and I can accept it. 

He, also, knows me better than anyone on this Earth. Good and bad. We share a history of trying to use drugs to escape although our choices in drugs did vary. We already share THAT recovery and now we are sharing another.

He is my bodyguard, my friend and the one who DARES to tell me when he thinks I am not handling a situation correctly. We are learning to trust each other again.

He spends much time with his little brothers...doing things that they ENJOY doing without attempting to mold their choices. Trying to be a different kind of role model. A model of understanding and empathy and kindness.

He is BRASH and he has a tough guy exterior...this is his protection against the world...and I can understand that! 

I do not seek to change it.

I hope that one day he finds a woman who can appreciate that because I KNOW how much he longs to be independent and on his own. To have someone to appreciate him and to start his own free life. In reality...he NEVER WANTED TO BE HERE. Despite what the N assumed and accused him of, he would love NOTHING MORE than to NOT BE DISABLED...to work and be "Productive" and "Normal".

For now we are placed together by the circumstance and I guess this is where we need to be. Where there is someone who KNOWS our history and our reasoning.

We are closer, now, than I could ever have hoped we would be. Gone is the image of the "perfect mother" that haunts so many of us... giving us a goal that is impossible to attain.

Instead, he sees me for exactly what I am...another injured soul...who ALWAYS TRIED to do what was right but was sidetracked by life experiences. Imperfect, fatally flawed, nothing but a pack of flaws and insecurities stitched together with good intentions...as the post said.

That's OK! 

He is finally coming to see that it is very LIBERATING to realize that this is what we are...what we ALL are. AND that we are worthy of LOVE and RESPECT even in being so unlovable at times. 

Love does not require perfection....that is one more thing the N's will NEVER understand!

Our new, little, family is coming to accept each other for ALL that we ARE. No masks, no perfection, no lies and no pretense.

My Mother always was, and would be now if she was here, very proud of what he is and is becoming! Her years of unconditional love are a part of his core and he still retains the ability to feel empathy and PITY....for me...and even for his true ABUSER.

It is more than I could have hoped for!

THE NARCISSIST: CHAMELEON WITH NO "SELF" EXCEPT ROTTING CORE THAT NEVER CHANGES....

THE NARCISSIST IS NEVER A BEING...THEY ARE ALWAYS A "BECOMING"....you are who you are, with flaws and faults, kindness and love...but a narcissist doesn't have a stable identity. There is no "ME" with a narcissist. I once asked my NarcX why she didn't just be herself, and in a rare moment of honesty, she said..."I don't know who I am". That's the narcissist.
The narcissist is not a being, but rather a "becoming"...they are always in a state of flux, depending on their situation and who they are talking to, and what they want, plus how they plan to use these people and this situation to get supply. A narcissist is a chameleon, and like that lizard, they change with their surroundings.

If they can get supply by pretending to care, they will. If donating to a charity gets them recognition, they will do it. The chameleon narcissist always looks for the right words to say and the right way to act to get attention and approval...aka, supply...from their audience.

I am reminded of the TV show "The Impostor".....but unlike the show, the narcissist is never "themselves"...there is no self. So, when watching a narcissist, you can watch the ebb and flow of the fakeness in progress. That's why I say they are not a being, they are always a "becoming".

However, at their rotting core, they have an evil, and the aspects of that evil are "them", such as it is. Liars, cheaters, abusers, cruel..the enjoyment of abuse, willing to do anything to get what they want with no moral values, utterly evil...but, what I mean by there being no "them" is that what people see changes all the time..like a shape shifter. The inner rotten core is and always will be the same, but what we all see has no reality to it. Everything....EVERYTHING...is a manipulation. Never forget that. When you speak to a narcissist, you ARE being manipulated. It's how they live.

WORDS YOU SHOULD KNOW: WORD SALAD

Word salad is a tactic by the narcissist where the N uses a steam of disconnected words and ideas that are intended to fill your mind with nonsense and keep you occupied trying to figure out what the N is talking about...it's a form of diversion, a conversation stopper.

Word salad is a part of narc speak...the form of talking used by narcissist to redefine words, to baffle, confuse, and control others.    Words salad works just exactly because you can find a way to answer it.

It goes along well with other forms of diversion, like:

1.  circular conversations.

2. Repeating the same thing again and again to drive you crazy.

3. Condescending answers or smearing and attacking.

4. Projection (accusing you of what the N is doing).

5. Playing the victim.

6. Making excuses.

7.  Lying.

The point of using all these together with word salad...a mish mash of disconnected ideas and words....is to give you a mystified sense of "what the heck just happened?".

Now, here's the most important point....this is done INTENTIONALLY.  It's a manipulation, not actually random.  It's a tactic.  And, as a consequence, it shows that the narcissist always wants CONTROL you and control conversations, not to resolve problems.  You will not resolve anything with a narcissist.  So, you have to ask yourself...can you live with that?

DIVERSION AND DEFLECTION...CONVERSATION STOPPERS

DIVERSION, AKA, DEFLECTION...HOW THE NARCISSIST AVOIDS DISCUSSIONS AND RESPONSIBILITY....deflection is often accompanied by projection....example, you mention that the narcissist is guarding their phone and that is is suspicious.....so, the narcissist says, "So, I guess you think you're perfect.  You're so damn insecure...you're paranoid...you're jealousy is destroying our relationship. (DEFLECTION).  "You're the one who's cheating.  What about that guy at work?  Which on are you f**king?" 

This way, the issue of why the narcissist is guarding the phone is never discussed, but instead, the topic of discussion is whether you are destroying the relationship with irrational jealousy and cheating, yourself.  The narcissist will use these tactics over and over about almost every topic.

Example...my NarcX was horribly irresponsible with money.  She'd spend every cent then get a pay day loan, not occasionally, but all the time, making her money management even worse.  I'd try to make her accountable for where the money was being spent, since it was unknown, and she'd just say, "Oh, yea, like you're Mr. Perfect.  What about the time you spent money on our daughter's gym shoes?  You blew a bundle."  Me:  "I had to buy a certain Nike shoe that matched their basketball uniforms, and it wasn't that much, and besides, it was in the open.  I have no idea where you're spending money."  Her:  "Now you're being controlling.  You're abusive.  You want to control everything I do."  Me:  "I just want to make some sense out of your spending.  I'd like you to stick to a budget."  Her:  "See.  You think because you're a man you should control all the money. Typical."  And on and on.

Notice that none of what she was saying was true.  It was a matter of her blowing money left and right who know where and having no money left for bills and necessities, and then, borrowing money when in fact, there was easily enough money to pay everything and have plenty left over.  Rather than account for it, or controlling her spending, she just engaged in deflection, and projection (accusing me of doing what she is doing). 

Because of this, no discussion with my NarcX, about any topic at all, ever made sense, and no issue ever got resolved....EVER.  Deflection and projection are tactics used to dominate you, and control the conversation, be abusive to you, and avoid all responsibility for what the narcissist does.

WORDS YOU SHOULD KNOW: DOSING

Dosing is a form of love bombing that takes place long after the honeymoon phase, and during the abuse phase of the relationship, but before the discard. The narcissist seeks to keep you hooked as long as possible because you still have usefulness to the narcissist, for instance, as a part of the narcissist's harem, to prop up his image outside the home, as arm candy, as a source of money, as an unpaid baby sitter, or simply as a person the narcissist enjoys abusing.

The narcissist doses you by giving you small amounts of the “three A's”...attention, appreciation, and affection in order to keep your hope up that the good times you experienced at the beginning will return for good. It differs from the love bombing phase in that it's motive is different...to prolong your involvement and agony...and because of it's limited nature. Love bombing is WAY over the top and highly excessive, whereas dosing is giving you just enough...the bare minimum possible...to keep you hooked and in the relationship.

How long this goes on depends on whether or not the narcissist is ready for the discard yet. I have known it to go on for over 25 years, or for as little as a few months. The narcissist always has other supply, and when the narcissist becomes tired and bored with you, they are ready for the discard. All that remains is the practical specifics, which the narcissist often sets up, so it seems as though they have found a “new love” immediately, but in fact, they have been involved for a long time.

However, even after that, it is extremely common to “hoover” you....named after the vacuum company, meaning, to try to suck you back into the narcissist's life. This may signify that the new supply is unsatisfactory in some way and doesn't meet the narcissist's expectations, or it may simply mean that the narcissist wants to keep you a part of their harem, or to use you, then abuse and discard you again. Hoovering can go on for years, even after a long lapse of time....say, over 5 or 10 years, passes, then the narcissist suddenly shows up, and uses sentimentality to rehook you emotionally.

This post is meant to show you just how manipulative and abusive the narcissist is. Just remember, whatever the narcissist does and says, it is a calculated manipulation and NEVER SINCERE.

NARCISSISTS PREFER PORN TO YOU.....

PORN....NARCISSISTS PREFER PORN AND CHEATING TO SEX WITH YOU....it's a sad and very distressing thing about narcissists that their self focus carries it's self out into their sex life...porn makes no emotional demands, nor does it require any effort or any emotional connection, either.  Narcissist PREFER unemotional sex every time, and require increasingly sickening sexual acts to get aroused, which is why they often pressure their partners to do things they don't want to do, including bringing others into their bed, or having group sex, or swapping.

Many narcissist have no sexual preference between men and women, and will engage in anonymous sex with either, and watch porn of either as well.  They may enjoy inflicting physical pain on their partner, or psychological pain in the form of making the partner feel used, feel like an object, or forcing them to do sexual acts they don't want to do.

When the narcissist withdraws sexually, it is often to punish the partner and to make them feel undesirable.  However, it can also be because the narcissist is getting their sexual needs met by others, or prefers to masturbate to porn rather than be with a real person.  A well know problem is porn induced erectile dysfunction, where the narcissist cannot get an erection with a real woman, but rather, only during the viewing of porn.

It's also common to tell the partner to go to bed and then, to view porn, and demand sex with their partner, or else, to play porn movies on the bedroom TV, expecting the partner to watch, often telling the partner that the PARTNER that it's for their sake that this is being done, not for the narcissist.

This results in a sexual experience that's emotionless, disconnected, soulless, destructive and exploitative, making the partner feel cheap and used.  It is yet another form of abuse by the narcissist, and an especially devastating one at that.

Once you get the narcissist out of your life, and you get into a good relationship, you will gradually relearn the beauty of sexuality in a loving relationship again.  Those wonderful, warm feelings will flow again from a partner who truly loves you.

WORDS YOU SHOULD KNOW: NARCISSISTIC ILLUSION

An inherent part of any narcissistic relationship is the illusion...that the relationship is not what it seems to be, but rather, during the initial phase, called “love bombing”, the narcissist feeds the victim a false view of himself, their relationship, and the future.

This is a form of brainwashing that is intended to give you a feeling of certainty about the choices you are making, and to make you feel confident and safe. This comes in the form of extremely positive statements about the victim to the effect that the victim is everything the narcissist ever wanted, that they have never met anyone like the victim, and never felt this way, and that the victim is perfect. That the praise is way over the top, and comes far too soon, is a sure sign of love bombing.

This makes the victim feel that they are in the driver's seat in the relationship...namely, that the power balance in the relationship, which should be equal, is actually far in the favor of the victim, since IT APPEARS that the narcissist wants the relationship so much that the victim is extremely treasured and exceptionally special. The victim LOVES this level of attention and it seems so sincere that the victim believes the narcissist's lies, setting up the illusion. This is love bombing phase is called by therapists “the idealization phase”.

The victim is now set up for the biggest disappointment of their life since they believe, quite reasonably, that they have found the perfect partner...it is the fulfillment of a dream. We have all heard that if something seems to be too good to be true, it is, and we all know this saying, but the narcissist is an incredibly good actor and extremely convincing.

What happens next comes as a shock...the narcissist begins to change and instead of showing admiration for the victim, they show contempt, disdain, negativity, and abuse...and, they tell the victim that THEY are to blame. The victim is now in what therapists call “the devaluation phase.” The victim can do nothing right at this point and, in fact, the confusing thing is that what was once praised is now criticized. In fact, now the victim is despised for the very qualities that were admired...for instance, the victim's independence and self reliance is now criticized as not paying enough attention to the relationship, and so means requiring the victim to get the approval of the narcissist for nearly everything. This causes the victim to walk on egg shells...which therapists call “hyper vigilance”. This, in turn, produces high anxiety in the victim.

In addition, the narcissist begins to show contempt for the victim in that the narcissist's fidelity is reasonably in doubt....guarding the phone, hiding surf history, sexy emails, lost time...and any mention of this is met with anger and accusations that the victim is irrational...crazy.

Now, you might wonder why the victim doesn't leave at this point? Some do, but most don't. The reason is that the victim still believes the illusion that the narcissist gave them early in the relationship....AND, the narcissist gives the victim just enough positive attention, sort of a mini love bombing, to keep them hooked until the narcissist is done with them. In addition, by now, the victim has lost all their self esteem and has no confidence, and is beaten down, depressed, and stressed...barely holding on. The narcissist now convinces their friends and family that the victim is mentally ill.

By this time, the victim has lost all sense of self and is in the control of the narcissist, and focused on the wants and needs of the narcissist, and pleasing the narcissist, with their own needs left behind. The victim has lost much of the ability to reason for themselves, because they have been GASLIGHTED, meaning, the narcissist has caused them to doubt their own mind, thinking, and perceptions, by manipulating the victim into thinking they can't trust themselves to understand and know what is happening in their life. In this way, the narcissist makes the victim think that they need the narcissist just to survive since they are helpless without the narcissist. The narcissist makes the decisions for the victim. This, too, is part of a new illusion...the illusion of helplessness.

At some point, either the narcissist discards the victim, or the victim is in such pain that they leave, but since the narcissist has turned all their friends and family against the victim (called “flying monkeys” by therapists), they don't know who they can trust, and it is likely that these people will do the victim more harm than good. This produces isolation.

Now, the destruction of the victim's life is complete because not only are they beaten down, depressed, stressed, and in pain, they are also alone, and fearful of having a new relationship for fear that they can trust no one. This keeps the victim in the control of the abuser even in the abuser's absence, since it give the narcissist the opportunity to “hoover” the victim by love bombing them again. Hoovering is the term used by therapists to refer to any form of manipulation meant to “suck the victim back in” to the narcissist's life, and is named after the vacuum. The victim now has to either face the harsh reality of life and begin to reconstruct a new and better life, or fall back into the illusion, be abused, and discarded yet again...and again...and again...

In order to begin a new life, it's necessary for the victim to give up the illusion and realize that the narcissist is a con artist and never loved them, that it has been a lie all along, done for the express purpose of doing the above, of abusing and hurting them. This may be the most difficult moment of your life since it destroys the beautiful dream that never was. You will still want to believe it was true, and that perhaps the narcissist does love you, that you could be happy, if only.... You can cling to that illusion if you want to, but if you do, your misery will go on and on.

Once you realize that the narcissist has been abusing you, and that there is nothing wrong with you and never was, and that the narcissist has been deceiving you, and that the narcissist never was the perfect partner, so there is no getting back what never was, then you can begin to STOP TRYING TO PLEASE YOUR ABUSER.

It takes a long time for you to get better...a very long time. It's slow and gradual, and having no contact with the narcissist is the best, and only way to begin. If you have a child, and must do minimal contact, I suggest you read the post on our Facebook page under the Notes section about how to do this.

You will slowly begin to understand, and slowly begin to trust yourself again. Narcissistic abuse CAN be healed. I have healed, as has my now wife. Life can be better, and happier, and the evil reality of the narcissist can and will be but a distant memory. Your life has been touched by a deep evil and by a liar and a predator. On this site's Facebook page, you will find friends who truly understand what you have been through and can provide support.

Talk to them...post your thoughts...regularly. It's liberating and validating. You'll notice that now you see the red flags of narcissism that you once missed. If you are love bombed again, you'll know you are with a narcissist and exit the situation. You'll get stronger with time. And independent again. And then, you will be ready for a new relationship...a genuine one. I know. Been there, done that, got the marriage license to prove it.

HYPERVIGILANCE... WALKING ON EGG SHELLS

HYPER VIGILANCE, TO US, MEANS WALKING ON EGG SHELLS....therapists have a several names for this, including hyper arousal...it means you are constantly on guard for the next round of abuse. It's an easy to notice symptom of PTSD. Now, listen carefully....THE NARCISSIST KNOWS THIS AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE N WANTS. The thing is, it's difficult to overcome, even with NO CONTACT....and, it's why, if you have kids with the N, you need to do minimal contact, as explained on the left side of our Facebook page under Notes.

I met my now wife 5 years after her divorce and she was still highly stressed and hyper vigilant. It took several years of day in and day out in our relationship for this to subside.

However, when she had to be around her NarcX, say, during a grandchild's birthday party, she just shrunk up and cringed. To make matters worse, he started hoovering her, 13 years post divorce...these guys never give it up. She got VERY STRONG BOUNDARIES...and wouldn't accept any excuses for him or his GF talking to her or touching heri. They have to stay across the room.

She's no longer hyper vigilant, but then it's now been 16 years later, and she's done a woman's group and individual therapy for years now. All I can say to you is that it can be difficult, but time will go by whether you begin your recovery or not. If you stay in contact with the N when you could be no contact, then it's going to be impossible for you to recover.

For those of you will children with the narcissist, I understand....I have a son who lives with my wife and me now, but I started this when he was 2. He's now 17. At times, it was terrible since she attacked me for 9 of those years in court. The emotional and financial cost was huge. But, I stuck with it. My son got away from the narcissist and is now doing well, and that makes it all worth it.

GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH A NARCISSIST?

Is that even possible? Well, to begin with, what you call a good relationship is not what a narcissist calls a good relationship. I suspect you mean kindness, compassion, empathy, trust, mutual respect, and a deep, mature love. Most of us know only too well how hard it is to have that at all, but with a narcissist? I'm afraid not.

Narcissists are not capable of being this way...oh, they know it when they see it, and can imitate it for a while, but as Mark Twain said, they know the words but not the tune. They are completely unable to actually do these things over time because it's all an act and not a natural result of deep love.

Couldn't I just explain this to them so they'd find a way to change, maybe with therapy? Well, the narcissist would have no idea what you were talking about. It's as if you were to say to a person who had been deaf for his whole life that something sounded like a bell. How would the person know what a bell sounds like? They know what a bell looks like, but they have no experience of a bell. So, explaining is futile. Besides, since how they are is all they've ever known, then they can't conceive of there being anything wrong with them.

Let's try another example. Since I am a normal, empathetic person, if I was acting in a movie, I could play a cold blooded, evil person with no conscience, but I wouldn't be one. I'd be acting the part, not becoming that person. Likewise, the narcissist can act the part of an empathetic person, but they can never become one. However, their acting is so good that they fool us into thinking they are a normal, empathetic person just like us.

However, after a while, their true self comes to the fore, because the normal person they are playing is not who they are inside. The other factor is that narcissists enjoy the process of abuse, which is why they do it for seemingly no reason. Enjoyment of sadistic pleasure is the reason. I enjoy gardening and baseball....so, I do them, and it's as simple as that.

The narcissist is always self centered and ego driven, and strongly driven to gain supply. A combination of maximizing their supply, feeling powerful by being in control, and from abusing, is their way of seeing the world, and you can see that this is so totally different from your own, that telling them they need to change would mean nothing.

Once our basic needs are fulfilled for food, shelter, and the like, the most valuable things to us are our human relations, especially with our partner. Our feelings of love, compassion, kindness, our spiritual life, empathy, plus our happiness for other people's happiness, are our most important, and most fulfilling things in our lives.

The narcissist, however, feels none of these and so, is an empty shell, which they try to fill up with possessions, status, the admiration of others, sex, and other sources of supply. They are otherwise completely empty and may express this by saying they don't really know who they are, because there are only what they see reflected back to them from other people.

So, we are GIVERS. But, the narcissist is a TAKER. We give love and acceptance because we know that this makes the other happy. The narcissist does what they do to make THEMSELVES feel better, not you. We believe (wrongly, as it turns out), that all people are capable of being good. The narcissist believes that all people are just like them and are hypocrites who won't admit it.

When a problem arises, we seek to resolve it....but the narcissist seeks to win at all costs. We make a mistake, we admit it and apologize....the narcissist blames you or someone else. We feel warm when we are kind and compassionate....the narcissist is a consummate manipulator. We forgive....the narcissist has to have revenge. We prize loyalty and fidelity.....the narcissist prizes novelty and new supply.

So, now you can see just how impossible it is to have a lasting relationship with a narcissist.  No matter how long you stay with the narcissist, or how loving you are, or how forgiving, or how loyal, the narcissist will invariably lie, cheat, steal, abuse you, and bad mouth you to others, because it is NEVER about your happiness. Everything the narcissist does is for themselves and their ego....to get what they want.

My questions is: Is this how you want to live?